There is a lovely cartoon in today’s DTH sticking it to Pope Benedict. View the Cartoon here.
In the cartoon, two priests are standing on either side of a picture of the Pope. The one priest says, “I don’t know-damning entire groups of people; using Nazi literature in sermons…” The other priest says, “The Big Boss said he still gets misty when he hears ‘the old classics’.” And above the cartoon reads “Missouri Catholics make nazi/stem cell bash week after church snubs gay priests.”
Ok, there is a lot to dissect here, but basically the cartoonist (and a bunch of other people) are taking cheap shots at the Pope and the Church in general because it is appears to be orthodox.
This cartoon criticizes the Pope’s recent writings on gay priests and the church’s stance on stem cell research. And supposedly, the Pope is hypocrite for taking these stands because he was in the hitler youth and a member of the regular German army during WWII.
First off, the Pope is German. So, when he was drafted, he went to war. And for his part, he deserted towards the end of the war anyway. So, get off it. He was not a Nazi. Setting moral standards for your flock is not the same as gassing Jews. It just isn’t.
More importantly though, the Pope’s background has no bearing on the gay priest and stem cell debate. First off, the church’s opposition to stem cell research rests on the belief that life begins at conception. Destroying the fertilized egg is destroying life. Nazism? Not really. Secondly, the ruling on gay priests is not about homosexuality at all. It is due to the fact that there are a lot of “actively” gay men in the seminaries. This is problematic when priests are supposed to take a vow of celibacy. Thus, men who are actively gay must repent and be chaste for three years before entering the seminary. Straight men must also refrain from sexual activity and must repent for their sins. The reason straight men don’t have to wait 3 years is because there is not an epidemic of seminarians having women on the side.
Finally, are these two stances really “conservative” or “orthodox”? In the political realm liberals and conservatives disagree on policy positions but have a common understanding of how government should operate. Few Senators would get elected if they wanted to do away with the Senate. Few politicians want to throw away voting rights or condense the three branches in to one. Similarly, the debate over stem cells and gay priests is not one that can be labeled conservative or liberal. It is not a debate over how a church service will be conducted, but a debate over when life begins and will priests be chaste.
These views seem more like fundamental beliefs that every member of the faith has to agree on to be a part of the faith. If you don’t like a traditional church service, you can say “I like a more contemporary service.” But if you don’t agree with “traditional” views such as when life begins and the importance of chastity, you can’t say “I hold a more contemporary understanding of catholicism.” It doesn’t work that way. If you don’t agree with these views, you don’t agree with the church. And voicing that opinion means that you stand against the church.
So, on important enough issues, you cannot consider yourself catholic. Case in point: Catholics for Choice. It is not that these people are liberal Catholics. On the contrary they stand opposed to the Church on one of its most important social teachings. Thus they should be excommunicated. But I digress…
The point is, liberals like to ostracize orthodox catholicism and christian fundamentalism because they adhere to certain beliefs. The reason being is that they fear constraints. In the religion of Leftists, one only has to be true to their conscience. If they can convince themselves that they are right, then everything is Ok and everyone is equal. The problem is that everyone is not equal. Some people do bad things and some acts are wrong. However, saying so makes liberals feel bad and so they call orthodox christians “Nazis” to make themselves feel better. That’s what I call tolerance.
First, take heart in the fact that when the modern world is upset with or mad at the Church, that is a great sign that the Church is doing what God demands. I actually like it when the Left attacks the Church, because that means the Church is standing up to and refusing to accept the contemporary neo-pagan religion of the modern world; that being secular humanism. Its when these disturbed forces (i.e. the Daily Tar Heal) praise the Church that I worry.For instance, other then the fact that the Church experienced one catastrophic scandal after another and one extreme instance of sacrilege and heresy after another under John Paul II, the surest proof that Pope John Paul II was not “Pope John Paul the Great” as some so called Catholics choose to label him, was his abundant popularity with the modern world. If he truly was “Pople John Paul the Great,” then he would have been demogogued at his death by the Left, just like the Left loves to demogogue the truly “Great” popes of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th century. Pope Leo XIII, Pope Pius IX, Pope St. Pius X, Pope Pius XII, etc., etc., etc. were all truly tremendous Popes and yet they are despised by elements of modern society like the miscreants over at the DTH.Anyway, the fact that the DTH is bashing the Church is a good thing, not a bad thing.
So where does protestantism fit in, according to the Church? After all, protestant history traces back to opposition to Church practices, not to mention that among the plethora of Protestant denominations, many hold beliefs not precisely in line with those of the Church.
Protestants are heretics amd were the first liberals.
Protestantism doesn’t fit into this in a strict sense. That’s why they are Protestants, not Catholics. If you don’t like Catholic views or the views of some sect of protestantism for that matter, you don’t have to be one. And if you are not a Catholic and are criticizing the Church, that means you are criticizing all 1 billion Catholics. On a slightly different note, my post alines christian fundamentalism with Catholicism on these kinds of issues. Obviously, fundamentalists and Catholics don’t agree theologically but they do hold common beliefs on the sanctity of human life and on the importance of chastity. So, the same goes for Protestants. If you don’t like the views of a certain sect, don’t be a member of that sect. That is the legacy of Protestantism. You can always break away.
I think someone over at the Carolina Review should go over to the Newman Center and ask Father Philip if he thinks gay men should be allowed to be priests. Then ask him if he’s not a “true Catholic.” People looking for an easy way to score ideological points can come with all sorts of variations on a theme about Catholic doctrines, and it bugs me to no end. Yet none of you are truly enough of a Catholic theologian or scholar to express a truly intelligent idea. I am not even going to try to argue with you because I don’t know enough about that doctrine to do an argument justice.But please at least go talk to a priest or Catholic scholar before you post such drivel about my faith.
Anonymous, you are an absolute idiot. You clearly have an infantile and humanist view of “your” faith. That is to be understood however, since you probably think Catholicism is whatever some leftist, pseudo-intellectual, VII theologian says it is. Father Phil (I shudder at even giving him the respect the title “father” normally deserves) is one of the last people I would go to on any matter of Catholic faith/doctrine. But regardless, the document being discussed here does not even ban homosexuals from the priesthood, so whatever your point is, it is moot. As far as Catholic doctrine towards homosexuality in general goes, you do not have to be a theologian to know the Magisterial teachings of the Church hold homosexuality to be a grave disorder and homosexual acts to be grave and deviant crimes against nature. Further, you need not even pick up the catechism, or refer to the applicable canon law, or even read the Bible to find this; go to your local Barnes and Nobles and pick up Pope John Paul II last publication before his death.Liberalism and homosexuality are literally destroying the Catholic Church in America. In my opinion the document didn’t go far enough. Regardless though, instead of lecturing others with your insipid assertions, maybe you yourself should study up and actually learn your faith and actually read whatever document it is that is being discussed before just spewing pure emotional rubbish in reaction to reading stuff that offends your modernist sensibilities. Just because you think something isn’t fair or something is unjust, doesn’t mean that it is in fact unfair or unjust.
Hey anonymous, I think it is interesting that you call my post drivel, yet you are too much of a coward to sign your post. Nonetheless I will respond. I have spoken to Father Philip at length about Catholic doctrine. And unfortunately, Father Philip does not have a lot of respect for the catechism. So, no he is not a true Catholic. Furthermore, this debate is not about whether gay men can be priests. The pope has ruled that they can. Sexually active gays and heterosexuals are the ones that can’t be priests. And if you have a problem with that you need to read your catechism. Thanks for posting.
I’d like to chime in here, being one of those “fundamentalist evangelical protestant” crazy types. As a Baptist(maybe the most conservative of the Protestant sects), the theology is clear concerning issues like abortion, homosexuality, evolution, etc. I believe it is very important for Protestants and Catholics to come together to stand up for the social morality that seems to be slipping away. There are theological differences, but politically, what is important is that the pro-life position is strongly voiced, opposition to same-sex marriage is voiced, and fighting against the purging of our society of Christian references in the public square. The conservative position needs to be strongly supported.Andrew
Thank you for bringing us back to the point here, andrew. I concur. People who believe in the sanctity of human life cannot sit back and be silent about it. Christians can’t say “politics is of the world of men and I want to be of the world of God.” We all need to work together to make this a better place. Christians who keep silent need to get into the discussion. And Christians who don’t find anything wrong with abortion need to reexamine their belief system.
Good post Andrew. Bottom Line, if all Christians in this country (protestant or Catholic), would actually hold strong to the Truth that Christ revealed, then the country would be a heck of a lot better off. So called “Christians”, or “Christians” in name only (or Cafeteria Catholics), need to stop re-defining the Truth and re-molding it into what they view as more equitable, “progressive”, or “fair.” Christianity is not the religion of man, subject to the sinful whims of the modernists; Christianity is Christ’s religion and we are mere protectorates and defenders of His faith so as to allow it to be the conduit to salvation He intended it to be. Those who detract from that intent by creating new doctrines and promoting views in direct contradiction to His teachings, are doing absolutely no one any favors. And in fact, to those individuals who are actually taken in by such sophistry, great damage is done.